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Ginger's Susan Hayward Message Board: To reach If You Knew Susie by Trish Sharp, click the profile photo at www.facebook.com/susanhaywardclassicfilmstar and you will see the link.

Ginger's Susan Hayward Message Board
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Re: BIG...STORIES...BIG...NEWS...AFTER....OSCAR WIN...>>>

" I say, what's the difference is something dates a movie?"

Absolutely so Gloria. Virtually everything about CASABLANCA, CITIZEN KANE, ALL ABOUT EVE and many films we cherish as classics 'dates the movie'. This in no way detracts from its viewing surely.

When it comes to late 50's / early 60's cinema, if studios think that deleting a Twist segment or references to particular political slogans of the day, will somehow 'modernise' the movie, then they have rocks in their collective heads.

The clothing, the hairstyles, the sets, the very way many scenes were shot, all trumpet the age of the film. Recall many of those early 70's films like MEAN STREETS,CARNAL KNOWLEDGE, FIVE EASY PIECES, MCCABE AND MRS. MILLER etc. The grainy zoom-ins, the use of colours like algae greens and corduroy browns, the nature of the soundtrack. It is impossible, without actually remaking a movie, to 'update' or obscure the era in which it was made.

So yes - some of the Susan deleted scenes ( in the abovementioned movies and more besides I presume) would be a delight to see.

Kerry

Re: Jeff Chandler and Susan...more than friends ?

Nothing against Jeff Chandler because I was a fan myself. But someone I know who resides in Brooklyn, said recently that Mr. Chandler had a perchant for cross-dressing and that many of his friends knew of it.
Presumabley if Susan knew her old school chum enjoyed doing that activity , that he would not have appealed to her in a romantic sense (even though they remained close as friends in a platonic sense).
I don't know how true this is and I likely should not even be writing of it. But if it has even a grain of truth to it then I would bet that it would put him out of the running for any of Susan's romantic fantasies.
Forgive me Mr. Chandler and any of his fans or family, true or not true.
Ginger you may please remove this entry if you feel it should not have been entered. ~ANN~

Re: Re: Jeff Chandler and Susan...more than friends ?

Ann:

I had read about this rumor many years ago, and like you, I have no idea if it's true or not. Also, like you, I would not have expected Susan, who seemed to like her men pretty robust, to have been attracted to a man like that.

I don't believe she had romantic feelings towards Chandler. I do believe she saw him as a friend. I think the bond with ex-Brooklynites was very strong with Susan, as we know from her friendship with Thelma Ritter and probably others.

I know that comedians such as Don Rickles and Alan King were very fond of her. I think this was because of their being ex-Brooklynites, too. But I hardly think she would have had any "romantic" feelings towards them. Sometimes the media can't accept that celebrities can simply have friends. And that's a shame, because it shows a lack of respect for the people involved.

Re: Re: Re: Jeff Chandler and Susan...more than friends ?

Exactly Gloria. Good ponts, all.

~ANN~

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Replying to:

Ann:

I had read about this rumor many years ago, and like you, I have no idea if it's true or not. Also, like you, I would not have expected Susan, who seemed to like her men pretty robust, to have been attracted to a man like that.

I don't believe she had romantic feelings towards Chandler. I do believe she saw him as a friend. I think the bond with ex-Brooklynites was very strong with Susan, as we know from her friendship with Thelma Ritter and probably others.

I know that comedians such as Don Rickles and Alan King were very fond of her. I think this was because of their being ex-Brooklynites, too. But I hardly think she would have had any "romantic" feelings towards them. Sometimes the media can't accept that celebrities can simply have friends. And that's a shame, because it shows a lack of respect for the people involved.

Re: BIG...STORIES...BIG...NEWS...AFTER....OSCAR WIN...>>>

Ann and Gloria - I could well be wrong but I think that tale of Jeff Chandler enjoying cross dressing may have come from an Esther Williams autobio ? Can't be sure but I have a recollection of her relating a tale about finding him thus grabed on one occasion when they were engaged.

There is no allusion whatsoever to his sexuality in the tale - he was presumably just a heterosexual man who enjoyed cross dressing, which is not that uncommon.

Kerry

Re: Re: BIG...STORIES...BIG...NEWS...AFTER....OSCAR WIN...>>>

Ann and Kerry, I had read that about Jeff Chandler also and it was in the Esther Williams bio. I wondered why she even wanted to mention it.

Re: BIG...STORIES...BIG...NEWS...AFTER....OSCAR WIN...>>>

At the risk of being a name-dropper again, I would like to add my two cents to this discussion. A few years ago I met Esther Williams at a church she attends here in L.A. I told her how much I enjoyed her autobiography and especially got a kick out of her final retort to Jeff Chandler when he called her up to his bedroom and presented himself to her wearing woman’s makeup and a polka dot dress. Naturally, she was flabbergasted by what she saw, and when he asked if she could go along with their engagement knowing of his predilection, she said in no uncertain terms she could not handle it. Her parting remark to him was something to the effect that, “By the way, Jeff, you are too tall to wear polka dots.” When I quoted this comment back to Esther, she quickly corrected me by stating exactly what she had said. (The fact that she remembered the line verbatim says a lot.) A friend who was with her then asked if she had ever heard from Jeff’s family about the episode, and Esther said no. Needless to say, if the story was untrue, they could have filed a libel suit.

I guess I feel differently about her telling this story. I believe autobiographies should be truthful and since this was a big part of her experience, I think she had a right to tell the story. I also think that beyond her joking, she was hurt to be called up to his bedroom, only to be confronted with a man in woman’s clothes and not the romantic encounter she envisioned.

As someone who has had my own share of weird experiences with the opposite sex, I applaud Esther for being real. Unfortunately, I agree with Bette Davis’s assessment of actors in Hollywood, to wit: “An actress is more of a woman and an actor is less of a man.” Of course, there are exceptions if you want to include Spencer Tracy, Humphrey Bogart and William Holden, but then they drank.

Re: BIG...STORIES...BIG...NEWS...AFTER....OSCAR WIN...>>>

Jill:

I agree with you that autobiographies should be truthful about everything they report. (Some people may say, why report a cross-dressing Chandler, but heck, the woman was contemplating marrying him. By itself, that's reason enough, I say!)

Frankly, I loved her retort about the polka dots, LOL.

I agree with Bette Davis's remark about actresses and actors, too. Who knew better than la Davis about the subject? I also loved her comment about old age not being for sissies. I keep learning more and more about that as the years go by.

I guess the only thing that troubles me about any of these stories on celebrities is that they seem to occur more after they're dead and can't respond to them. But such is the nature of gossip, and we do pay attention to it.

Re: Re: BIG...STORIES...BIG...NEWS...AFTER....OSCAR WIN...>>>

I believe in telling the truth too, but some things, I think, could be omitted...just my own thoughts..everyone feels differntly about it. If I were a member of Jeff Chandler's family, I wouldn't have appreciated Esther Williams "broadcasting" that information, but then, again, to each his own.

Pretty cool,though, Jill, that you actually met and talked with Esther Williams.