I have debated since reading Errol's recent post whether to respond to it,
because I feel,he has designated me as one of those "nit pickers and flaw-
finders" where Susan Hayward is concerned. As a fan since age 13 (more years
ago then I care to remember),I was thrilled to discover Ginger's website
about seven years ago. I believe that Ginger intended Susans' admirers to
be able to freely share and receive information from others and exchange
thoughts and opinions of any kind. I feel that she wishes us to be honest
and respectful of each other whether we agree or not. No rules were est-
ablished and no criteria set up by her to determine who should be designated
a TRUE SUSAN HAYWARD FAN.
In previous posts,I have expressed disappointment concerning some of Susan's
career choices in later years and fellow members have agreed or disagreed
with me as they surely have been given the opportunity and right to do.
Additionally,I have expressed interest in Susan's private life. She achieved
great success against tremendous odds,and I greatly admire her. She made
some poor choices as well-so have we all. I wish her personal life had been
happier. Tim Barker has been very forth-right and sharing concerning his
mother-he didn't owe us that information. He undoubtedly wished that certain aspects of her life had been different,but that did not prevent him from
I have four grown children and four grandchildren;as a parent,I would give my
life for them. I have been critical of them-and they have been of me-
over our lifetime together because we are all flawed human beings-ALL OF US.
That being said,we do not love each other less.
I think I speak for most women when I say that we do tend to be more curious
about the lives of others than men.If my curiosity regarding Susan has caused me to cross a line and offend anyone,I truly apologize.
In the final analysis,I feel that none of us is qualified to judge whether
another meets their standards as an "acceptable" FAN. The only exception
to this would be Ginger,who created this Board,and who,I feel certain,would
never presume to do so.
Eloquently couched Elaine.
At times we almost deify some public figures who have had a profound effect upon us in one way or another. Now should that have been someone like Mother Teresa or Nelson Mandela or similar, there are no skeletons of flawed humanity rattling in the closet.
But when it may be a film star - or sports star or politician or general or author - whoever, nearly all of them will have some flaw, some weakness, some failing that while it may not affect their work / profession/ trade / art ( ergo the effect they have on their fans) it does mean that their personal life will be less than perfect in every way.
The trick I guess is to be able to divorce in one's mind the distinction between the 'public' persona that so inspired and thrilled and encouraged us-and the ' actual person' who may hold imperfections, and be able to accept them with those flaws as being irrelevant to the great pleasure they give us by being their fans.
The other aspect to muse upon is whether those very flaws, those demons, those imperfections, those weaknesses were the trigger for the formation of their talents? That without them, they may never have written, played, acted, created the legacies they leave ?
You are right...Elaine...and I apologize if I have offended you, since it was not you I was referring to in the first place. But even with that being said..I should have 'never' have posted that post!!!
I wss upset at some digging being done, was just not very nice. But..YOU are correct when saying that 'no one' should have the 'right' to determine 'who is and who isn't...a FAN'.
This is meant to be an apology to YOU and ANYONE else who read my message and was offended by it.
I will be leaving the site...for work this week...and then you can openly discuss me and all my 'personal flaws'. But that don't mean that I won't be back, so unless you want me 'dis-banned' from commenting on here, I will be back again when I can.
I have TRIED to keep conversation going on here for quite sometime now. It will now be up to others to decide if they want to discuss or not. I am only a FAN and can only 'input' so much.
AGAIN...APOLOGY TO ONE AND ALL...I should have never posted what I did. You are ALL FANS in you own way.....
ELAINE...After being offline for awhile and thinking about what you said..I had to come back online and mention something to you.
Not too long ago...you had written that you didn't post much any more, because it 'seemed' like you were being shot down if you said anything. That someone would always say something against your post...(or something like that but that was the 'main thing' you were trying to relate.
It was me who told you that was 'not true'..and encouraged you to continue to post.
So...what I can't understand is that you took my 'NOT NICE POST' to be directed at..YOU? It had nothing to do with what you had posted. Nothing at all!
I am so very sorry that you took the message to be all about what you have said when it wasn't...anything YOU have said.
I have decided it is best that "I don't post' any longer on here. Susan is my favorite actress and always will be. But I can come and visit this site without sharing my thoughts with others. I will NOT stop visiting here, but like so many others..I guess it's time to 'stop talking'..(at least for me.)
Hope this clears things up for you, at least, since you were reading things into that message that had nothing to do with you, no matter how bad it might have been to post it.....Goodbye...
Hey Errol-My friend- have no worries(as my young friends would say). No one wants you to leave the board-you should never go.You are certainly correct
that you did encourage me to express myself in the past. Actually,I didn't
so much feel "shot down" when I posted then,but rather somewhat disloyal
when I said something negative in relation to Susan. I remember Trish had
said that for her Susan could do no wrong. I,on the other hand,did not always feel that way. And because I had recently posted questions concerning
Susan's addiction,I felt you thought I might be "digging for dirt".
Errol,I think we are both too sensitive for our own good. You are an actor
and supposed to have sensitivity and as for me--well,I'm sure my family
would be glad to fill you in on that subject.
I wish you a happy,productive run of the play and am expecting to hear
from you many times in the future. Take care!
And to Kerry,you are absolutely so right. It is Susan's strength yet
obvious vulnerability combined with her beauty and talent that have
attracted our attention and held our fascination with her as the actress
she is.Her weaknesses as a person become her strenghts as an actress.
Thank you Alice for the encouragement on the shows..and YES..I am starting a few weeks early...(no..not in hiding)...because they asked us to do THE SUNSHINE BOYS at Park City..at the Egyptian Theater (home of the Sundance Film Festival each year).
It happened,much to my surprise, because usually one of our the Neil Simon shows plays up there..'after' we do the summer runs in Cedar City (down in so. Utah an hour from St. George.)
EDDIE MEKKA from LAVERNE AND SHIRLEY show and CLARENCE GILYARD from WALKER, TEXAS RANGERS and other cast members are already in rehearsals up there and I will be joining them this Sunday. I was only suppose to do the (small cameo role in this show) in Cedar City and they were going to get a professional actor, from that area to do the 'cameo' up there, but then I got a call from the producer saying they wanted me to join them..and not go through working with a different actor up there.
We open on June 13th for five performances and when we get back here, the following Monday, we go right into rehearsals for ALL FOUR shows for the summer run.
Like I said...now that I am gone, you can all talk about 'my human flaws'> I won't be missed...that I do know!! Have some good chats and I hope that others might start joining in. I hate to see the message board go 'silent' like it has in the past at times. But like Ginger has said..sometimes it is going strong and sometimes..nothing happens.
I will be looking in...because I love Susan and always will. Maybe I stand up for her more than I should..and that causes me 'big problems'..but I apologized for 'the bad post' and that is all I can do...isn't it? Or is there something more I should do...??
Typical of a twin, I, too, like Alice, did not realize you were off so soon! But now I've read why. That is so exciting! This will be a very special summer. And you WILL be missed, as we are all going to be hoping all is going well.....and anxious to hear, in the autumn, your great experiences over the summer! Susan will be here, keeping your seat hot!
Take care and enjoy every minute!
Something just occurred to me! I wonder how many 'fans' of any admired performer first BECAME that fan because of what they READ about that person--well BEFORE they even got the chance to WATCH them perform??
That is exactly what I experienced. When knowing very little about Susan, at all--or even if I had actually even SEEN any of her films--I had the good fortune to sit down and read Beverly Linet's biography, "Susan Hayward - Portrait of a Survivor".
And I say 'good fortune', not because I know what Ms. Linet got wrong and what she got right (Susan seems as if she was way too private to 'tell all''--and.....why should she!)--but because just by reading her biography, I realized that this was not your typical Hollywood star to read about and just shelve the book. And--in this particular case--I have to admit that I grew so curious, just based on her 'personality'---her individualism, her, at times, duo-nature and her absolute devotion to her talent as an actress. Finishing the book, I also felt that I saw a very complex woman, who I would never 'know'.....and who struggled with the many facets of her life.
And so, I landed up introduced to her private life before I even had the opportunity to watch her films--and her extraordinary acting talent! I sort of became a 'fan'--backwards!!
I'm just mentioning this Elaine, because it is so true that fans evolve in so many different ways! It was because of my fascination with Susan as a woman and with all that she went through to achieve her dream, that brought me to want to view any and all of her films shown on television and, then DVD.
And, once I had this chance to watch the amazing range of roles she could handle, it was mesmerizing! And--Susan Hayward had a new fan!
(And, yes, by then it would have been impossible for me to completely separate "Susan--the Woman" from "Susan--the Performer". I also agree, Elaine, that women do seem to find it easier to merge the different sides of a person---focusing both on their career and their personal experiences. Knowing one's hardships brings compassion--and, as discussed, can add depth to that person's work. But it is up to us, the 'fans' not to confuse the two.)
First, thanks to our wonderful Trish, who took the time to point out to me those of Susan's films that I might particularly be interested in. Checking Susan's list of her work had totally floored me, as to what and where to start! And it was so helpful for Trish to 'get me started'. She certainly made me the 'fan' I am today! I have so much more awareness! Watching Susan play varying roles helps so much in seeing the different sides of her--I found Susan's acting SO real that in come cases ("IWTL"), the experience was almost too much for me! I had to remind myself that it was NOT our Susan facing the gas chamber!!!
At any rate, Elaine, your post spoke so 'eloquently' of just how complex that word 'fan' can be. Being a fan is really whatever you want it to be. For myself, learning so much about Susan as an individual first--even though there were bound to be flaws in the Linet book--must have in some way affected how I viewed those first few films. But, then, as I became more and more wrapped up in Susan's acting......and just how she moved and looked in each role.........that I began to see "Susan as actress" and "Susan as a woman coping with life" both combining to bring out the true and the special person she was.
I now feel like a true 'fan'---loving the woman for all she brought out to an audience---and for all the struggles she went through during the whole acting process--while fighting her own many difficulties in life.
I hope that we see on the Board more and more and more 'fans', as I don't think it is possible to run out of topics that we can discuss about this talented, beautiful woman!
Have a lovely weekend, each and every fan!