Dedicated to Sri Sarada Devi

A Place where devotees gather to share inspiration.


"Holy Mother" painted by Swami Tadatmananda

Used courtesy of the Vedanta Society of Southern California

http://www.vedanta.org




Dedicated to Sri Sarada Devi
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Re: Mother's words on Karma, Love of God, Truthfulness and Lust

I think as you do sister Rosemary!

Spiritual instruction given to a particular individual has to be taken in the context. Since we do not always understand the context we quite often tend to misinterpret. When we are sincere, correct inner guidance comes.

Here is a quote from a wonderful book "Spiritual Practice -- Its Conditions and Preliminaries" by Swami Ashokananda:

"We are misled by our desires. They do not always appear in their true colours. They sometimes assume holy attire and lead us to believe that they are spiritual. There are many subtle desires in the mind, of which we know nothing at present. When the present gross desires have been eradicated, the subtle ones will emerge. Only Sadhakas (spiritual aspirants), those who have renounced the objects of gross desire, can know them. Two are the greatest and basic enemies of spirituality -- Kama (lust) and Kanchana (gold). These passions can and do take variegated forms. The motives of thought and action should always be analysed. Even desire for service, apparently so noble, may sometimes be nothing but a veiled form of lust and passion for possession. We have, therefore, to be on the watch every moment of our life."

..."What is spirituality? It is the complete cessation of Vrittis, mental modifications. The universe, subjectively speaking, is nothing but an aggregate of Vrittis. Spiritual progress consists in reducing the number of these Vrittis, until the Vritti relating to God alone remains in the mind. We reach this state through concentration and meditation...."

Location: U.K.

Re: Mother's words on Karma, Love of God, Truthfulness and Lust

Another thought that comes to minds -- and I agree, context is everythig. Unfortunately we don't always have the knowledge of context. But we can trust that seemingly "contradictory" teachings are probably approaching a spiritual challenge from various needs and perspectives.

Having said this, two thoughts come to my mind.

One is that "sin" in totality is not what we Christians have been taught. "Sin" is acting in ignorance of our divine nature. Swamiji and Sri Ramakrishna both taught that to think of one as "a sinner" -- as Christianity tends to do -- is to reinforce our bonndage.

In The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, M. records the Master’s words during a trip aboard Keshab’s steamer:

"Once someone gave me a book of the Christians. I asked him to read it to me. it talked of nothing but sin. (To Keshab) Sin is the only thing one hears of at your Brahmo Samni too. The wretch who constantly says, I am bound, I am bound only succeeds in being bound. He who says day and night, ‘I am a sinner, I am a sinner’ verily he becomes a sinner.

"One should have such burning faith in God that one can say: 'What? I have repeated the, name of God and can sin still cling to me? How can I be a sinner any more? How can I be in bondage-any more?’

"If a man repeats the name of God, his body, mind, and everything become pure. Why should one talk only about sin and hell and such things? Say but once, 0 Lord, I have undoubtedly done wicked. things, but I won’t repeat them.’ And have faith in His name."

Carrying his Master’s message to the West, Vivekananda struck hard blows at this great obstacle to spiritual development:

"If I teach you... that your nature is evil, that you should go home and sit in sackcloth and ashes and weep your lives out because you took certain false steps, it will not help you, but it will weaken you all the more, and I shall be showing you the path to more evil than good... Bring in the light and the evil goes in a moment. Build up your character and manifest your real nature, the Effulgent, the Resplendent, the Ever Pure, and call it up in everyone you see."

Personally, I find Jesus teaching the same Truth, which is no surprise. Like Ramakrishna and Swamiji, he deplored all who placed unnecessary hindrances on spiritual growth. Prayer, as taught by Jesus (and by Ramakrishna), is far from the self-debasing wails of unworthiness familiar to many a sincere Christian. Rather, one is to approach God with the simple straightforwardness of a child claiming from its parents the inheritance due him. Sin was nothing to fret about. As one forgave the faults. of others, so can God be expected to forgive. But Jesus does not stop there. Not only is the Father expected to forgive the failings of His children, He is told to "lead us not into temptation!" How many of us have missed the significance of this statement, conditioned as we are to believe ourselves solely responsible for our ‘fallen’ state! Not so, says Jesus. Rather it is the Father’s responsibility to guide the child along the right path, thereby delivering it from the consequences of taking a wrong turn.

So, firstly, "sin" is not the heavy burden we tend to believe. If we were already aware of our true nature we wouldn't be here!

Secondly, while thought precedes action and we want, therefore, to watch our thoughts -- the key word is WATCH. We are to be a witness, an observer. We want to be aware of our thoughts, and we want to diffuse them before they take hold of us. That is, we want to to let them go.

We do not want to give power to the thoughts that arise. Power comes not just from blindly embracing a thought. This is mindlessness. Power also comes from giving too much importance to a thought, whether positive or negative. Too much attention impresses the thought more deeply in our mind.

So, I don't think Mother was simply being kind to the devotee. I think she was giving a very practical spiritual lesson. It is good that you aware of your negative thoughts. Now let them go before these become actions.

Re: Re: Mother's words on Karma, Love of God, Truthfulness and Lust

RE: "But, Mother in her Mother's compassion was, I believe, helping a devotee feel better about being human.."

Cooment: So Very True. Mother was certainly motivated by feelings
of limitless compassion. Even to the extent of causing damage to her
own delicate physical health. Here are some pertinent quotes from:
"In The Company Of The Holy Mother"


Swami Arupananda:

To Mother: "I have heard that if one takes upon oneself the burden of another's sins," I continued, "one's health breaks down. The body which saves many souls may break down for a single soul."

"Yes, and his powers grow weaker," Mother said. "All the strength gained through prayer and meditation, which could have saved many souls, gets sometimes exhausted for the sake of a single one. The Master used to say, 'My illness is the effect of taking Girish's sins upon myself.' But Girish too is suffering now."

It was the kindness of her mother's heart which impelled her to initiate people and take upon herself their sins. She once said, "I give initiation out of compassion. They do not leave me; they weep. This moves my heart. Otherwise what do I gain?

"I have to take upon myself the sins of those I initiate. I say to mself, 'This body will die some day, but let them be awakened'."

During the last part of her life, when she was physically weak and had to spend a great part of time in bed, she used to keep awake many an hour at night praying and repeating the Lord's name for the welfare of those disciples who neglected their own spiritual disciplines.

"I do it out of pity for them," Mother answered, "They won't let me go, they weep and I feel sorry. I do it out of pity, otherwise what good is it to me? If one initiates somebody, one has to take his sins upon oneself. I feel that since the body must die someday, let it die for the sake of these people."

"Power flows through the mantra, from the guru to the disciple and from the disciple to the guru," Mother explained. "That is why when one gives the mantra and takes the sins of the initiated upon oneself, one's health fails. It is very hard to be a guru, one has to to take the responsibilty for the disciple's sins....If the disciple commits a sin, the guru must atone for it. And if the disciple is good, the guru also stands to gain. Some progress rapidly, some slowly, according to each one's accumulated tendencies. That is why Rakhal does not like to give initiation. He says, 'Mother, as soon as one gives the mantra to somebody, one falls ill! I shudder at the very idea of giving initiation to anybody.'"

I went to her another day...and heard the disciples saying, "When Mother gets well again, no one will be permitted to take initiation from her, because she has to take upon herself all the evil effects of their sins!"

When Mother heard this she smiled gently and said, "Why, my dears? Has the Master come this time to enjoy the sweets only?" No one could give a reply to this.

Nahabat Guestbook

Re: Mother's words on Karma, Love of God, Truthfulness and Lust

Also, her description of performing austerities is very interesting...that truthfullness is the method, in "this Kali Yuga"...

Also, I believe, in the matter of lust, that anytime we view or use another human being as an "object" to meet our our own needs, then we are creating karma in our lives...perhaps that is Swamiji's warning to us..and the reason that men, particularly, must begin to see women not only as the personification, but as a reality, of the Divine Mother...

I went to church on Sunday, and heard a preacher say from the pulpit (because he had gone past the hour)...now I've gone from preaching into meddling..

Jayanti, my thanks for setting us right...

Location: North Carolina

Re: Re: Mother's words on Karma, Love of God, Truthfulness and Lust

Thanks for having initiated this discussion. I got to know some things, rectified my understanding of others. Some stray thoughts -- 1. peace is not to be found even in Ashramas. You have to build it up within yourself. And labour and responsibilities do not decrease, they only increase as you evolve further. 2. GOd tolerates wrong-doing only to a certain extent, even if with a good end in mind. Beyond the limit, it is stopped and repercussions follow, 3.Dharma is an ethical conduct arising from the depth of one's soul, 4. Spiritual life is not a joke, not doll's play, 5.The very nature of the mind is changing, otherwise it wouldn't be mind. How will you know what is good if you do not experience evil, some of the evil we experience are tests of God, not necessarily our karma.
All said by Sri Fhanindra.
Regards.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Also, her description of performing austerities is very interesting...that truthfullness is the method, in "this Kali Yuga"...

Also, I believe, in the matter of lust, that anytime we view or use another human being as an "object" to meet our our own needs, then we are creating karma in our lives...perhaps that is Swamiji's warning to us..and the reason that men, particularly, must begin to see women not only as the personification, but as a reality, of the Divine Mother...

I went to church on Sunday, and heard a preacher say from the pulpit (because he had gone past the hour)...now I've gone from preaching into meddling..

Jayanti, my thanks for setting us right...

Location: Guwahati, Assam, India